It's 2:10 and the local PBS station is showing The McLaughlin Group. You have Pat Buchanan, Elenor Clift, Clarence Page and Mort Zuckerman. There talking about immigration (natch with Pat Buchanan) and I can hear the Prince song 1999 playing in my head because nothing has changed on the show. Yeah, everyone's a bit older but the arguments are almost the same.

Pat Buchanan talks about the horde of Mexicans pouring across the border. Elenor is shouting in her high pitched voice trying to talk over Pat, which is like fingernails scratching a caulk board. Zuckerman holds up the good fight for the big business crowd. Page is trying to be diplomatic. McLaughlin is the grand leader of the group, telling Clift she is wrong and telling Pat he's on the right track but crazy.

Let me deter from the immigration debate they were having for just a moment. They just did something that was right out of The Dark Knight Returns. Yes, the Frank Miller graphic novel. For five minutes the McLaughlin Group talks about The Dark Knight Rises movie and if the film was a love story to capitalism or to the 99%. It got really funny when McLaughlin, on introducing the grosses of the movie and his feeling that the film was pro-capitalism, gave the premise to the group by making a slip of the tongue and calling it a documentary! Buchanan started to give his two cents worth but Clift had to chime in reminding McLaughlin it was a movie not a documentary. He laughed it off saying he knew it was a movie but it was a funny awkward moment. Listening to these guys, who earlier were in a typical bloated conversation about immigration now talking about Bruce Wayne and Batman like they were real, and putting them in the context of how they represented the rich was classic comic book stuff.

I will say Clarence Page surprised me with his comic book knowledge. He brought up that Superman was a 99% representer, talking about his origins in the 30s and how he was presented at the everyman who had great abilities inside him, much like the can-do spirit of the average American, that allowed him to fight evil. Batman, on the other hand, used his wealth to fight crime. Page implied that Batman used his wealth to compensate for not having the inner strength that Superman had in fighting for truth, justice and the American way.

When I thought about it, the view he had was kind of opposite of the appeal of the characters. Batman, with no superpowers, has always been thought of as the guy everyone could become. With hard work, you could bring yourself to top physical ability and get your mind to be analytical. Page put something interesting into the mix. No matter how much we can physically or mentally get ourselves to be Batman, wealth is one of his greatest 'superpowers.' Building different devices, having access to high tech equipment, you can't do that on a lawyers salary. Wealth can be argued is the main factor that makes someone Batman. You can build up your body and mind to peak perfection, but without the money to buy the cool gadgets you can't be Batman.

We don't think of ourselves as Superman, because he's alien, but his abilities are all from within himself. He's the guy who won't back down, who will stand by his principles even if they are out of favor. He's not the playboy like Batman is, but Superman didn't suffer like Bruce who had his parents killed in front of him when he was a young boy. It is that farmer spirit, that Midwestern trait of fairness and principle that motivates Superman. Yes, the flying, the strength and all the other factors are what makes Superman super, it's his Midwestern philosophy, his inner American spirit that is at the heart of Superman. You don't need a cape of super strength to be like Superman. It can be argued that you can physically or mentally be like Batman but you will fall short of being him because of money. You may not be able to have the strength of Superman but his spirit and drive is something all of us can reach, no matter our size and shape.

OK, now that I've praised Page for his knowledge of Batman, let me knock him down a few pegs. I give him credit for knowing Bane was created in the 90s and he gets credit for knowing he was in a previous version of the franchise. He loses points because he somehow thought Bane was a businessman and he wasn't sure if it was in the comic book or the movie.

I had to take that side trip because it was so out of the blue to hear The McLaughlin Group talk about The Dark Knight Rises as a metaphor for the joys of capitalism. It wouldn't have been a topic they would have talked about in the 90s, but to be fair a comic book styled movie that made sure to treat the characters realistically and set them in the real world wouldn't have existed at th time.

With the immigration issue, which also has shown change over the years, the topic wasn't about the vast wave of immigrants coming into the country but the lack of illegal immigration into the country. Buchanan was still trying to trot out his 'illegal aliens hordes crossing the border' talk (yes he did say illegal aliens and no one corrected him) and while he argued there were close to 20 million undocumented people in the country, others on the panel countered it was closer to 8-10 million.